General Discussion About India

[qesehmk]

Leo .... I am very eagerly waiting for the Indian aircraft carrier ADS (advanced defense ship) and India's own GPS system. Today India uses Russian GPS for military and American and/or Russian for commercial. But having its own is critical since in case of conflict you don't want to be at their mercy to get your coordinates which can be so easily be rigged.



PS: That's Sukkhoi T-50 if you are wondering. Russia-India collaboration, which could get into IAF by 2013.

[leo07]

Absolutely. But, this is a very good leap for IAF, to be able to deliver a leading fighter-jet, of course with huge partnership from Russia. But,nevertheless raises our standards for much more in the future.

Leo .... I am very eagerly waiting for the Indian aircraft carrier ADS (advanced defense ship) and India's own GPS system. Today India uses Russian GPS for military and American and/or Russian for commercial. But having its own is critical since in case of conflict you don't want to be at their mercy to get your coordinates which can be so easily be rigged.

[qesehmk]

And they should actively increase indian coroporate presence in defense dealings. While that would be following footsteps into US military industrial complex .... I don't think India has the luxury to think otherwise.

p.s. - Brahmos has been a terrific success story. Speaks volumes to the goodwill between India Russia (and notwithstanding the bitter taste left in mouth by the Gorshkov / INS Vikramaditya)

Absolutely. But, this is a very good leap for IAF, to be able to deliver a leading fighter-jet, of course with huge partnership from Russia. But,nevertheless raises our standards for much more in the future.

[donvar]

And they should actively increase indian coroporate presence in defense dealings. While that would be following footsteps into US military industrial complex .... I don't think India has the luxury to think otherwise.

p.s. - Brahmos has been a terrific success story. Speaks volumes to the goodwill between India Russia (and notwithstanding the bitter taste left in mouth by the Gorshkov / INS Vikramaditya)

Brahmos is toothless unless they increase its range. They cannot take out any bases with such a limited range. Also I believe the time of aircrafts has gone. Aircrafts are good for non-nuclear neighbors. Any new conflict which involves aircraft will inevitably involve use surgical nuke strikes on our airfields. To have good deterrent country should have long range cruise and ballistic missiles and spread them well over submarines (not necessary nuclear, diesel will do). Future wars will be decided in couple of hours.

[qesehmk]

You don't have to have range. You can sell it to friendly countries or put it on your ships and airplanes which then increases the range.

I think Brahmos is not intended as a nuclear missile. I think it is a tactical missile intended to carry out a precision strike. That is why it is stealth and terrain hugging and supersonic. For a strategic missile you don't care about stealth because once it reenters it usuallly would spawn into multiple targets. And by the way India doesn't have one. Even latest Agni is hardly capable of reaching China and that too not all parts of China. The Indian LRBM Surya with range of 10,000+km is shelved (apparently under pressure from US).

Anyway but coming back to Brahmos, this is better than anything in its class. I am not aware of if there is any stealth supersonic cruise missile other than Brahmos in the world.


Brahmos is toothless unless they increase its range. They cannot take out any bases with such a limited range. Also I believe the time of aircrafts has gone. Aircrafts are good for non-nuclear neighbors. Any new conflict which involves aircraft will inevitably involve use surgical nuke strikes on our airfields. To have good deterrent country should have long range cruise and ballistic missiles and spread them well over submarines (not necessary nuclear, diesel will do). Future wars will be decided in couple of hours.

[donvar]

You don't have to have range. You can sell it to friendly countries or put it on your ships and airplanes which then increases the range.

I think Brahmos is not intended as a nuclear missile. I think it is a tactical missile intended to carry out a precision strike. That is why it is stealth and terrain hugging and supersonic. For a strategic missile you don't care about stealth because once it reenters it usuallly would spawn into multiple targets. And by the way India doesn't have one. Even latest Agni is hardly capable of reaching China and that too not all parts of China. The Indian LRBM Surya with range of 10,000+km is shelved (apparently under pressure from US).

Anyway but coming back to Brahmos, this is better than anything in its class. I am not aware of if there is any stealth supersonic cruise missile other than Brahmos in the world.

In considering the usefulness, you have to see the usage scenario. In case of India, unlike US, missiles will be only used in case of war with India. Any missile even non nuclear crossing our western border will invite nuclear strike as nobody would want to assume that missile sent was a non nuclear missile.

Now coming to Brahmos : It is a cruise missile intended to do tactical/surgical strikes. It should be nuclear enabled to take out deep hidden missile silos of enemy country. I am not impressed with supersonic that too with stealth as it is an overkill. Our neighbors dont have the capability to take down any missile. Our western neighbor is more pragmatic and though has a subsonic but a >1000 KM range Babur cruise missile which can take out our nuclear installations.

I am not interested in Air to Land Brahmos version as aircrafts wont have time to launch an attach unless it is a peremptory strike. I am interested in Land and sea (underwater Sub launched) launched Brahmos. It is precision strike missile and needs to have distance and punch(nuclear) to destroy deep seated installations.

Agni is ballistic missile which are not tactical/precise, it will though take out cities and they are a bigger deterrent than Brahmos.

What you mentioned about mutiple targets is MIRV, its good to have but with only range of 300 KM, totally useless.

I sincerely believe aircrafts will not have a role to play in future war involving missile. Any missile launched will be assumed a nuke missile launched and you got to have air strips intact for aircrafts.

[TheTexan]

Don't mean to derail the thread but I beg to differ. Saying Brahmos is toothless is a bit extreme. Also, fighter planes will not be irrelevant atleast not in near years. Their roles will change. Case in point - Let us say that an armored column of Paki tanks decide to cross the border and attack Longewala post, will you launch a nuclear missile? or will you send Mirage 2000 with smart bombs? Btw, all the fighter planes buffs should go through Bharat-rakshak.com.... Amazing!

[qesehmk]

Here we are going by the books, enduring emotional stress, anxiety etc and the government decides to give amnesty to illegals. If I do something that is illegal, I get punished by law, these people came here illegally but they'll be awarded citizenship... just ranting... again... :-)
It is really painful. The power of numbers .... what else? Asians on the other hand generally immigration into high skilled areas and as a result don't have numbers on their side.


In considering the usefulness, you have to see the usage scenario. In case of India, unlike US, missiles will be only used in case of war with India. Any missile even non nuclear crossing our western border will invite nuclear strike as nobody would want to assume that missile sent was a non nuclear missile.

Now coming to Brahmos : It is a cruise missile intended to do tactical/surgical strikes. It should be nuclear enabled to take out deep hidden missile silos of enemy country. I am not impressed with supersonic that too with stealth as it is an overkill. Our neighbors dont have the capability to take down any missile. Our western neighbor is more pragmatic and though has a subsonic but a >1000 KM range Babur cruise missile which can take out our nuclear installations.

I am not interested in Air to Land Brahmos version as aircrafts wont have time to launch an attach unless it is a peremptory strike. I am interested in Land and sea (underwater Sub launched) launched Brahmos. It is precision strike missile and needs to have distance and punch(nuclear) to destroy deep seated installations.

Agni is ballistic missile which are not tactical/precise, it will though take out cities and they are a bigger deterrent than Brahmos.

What you mentioned about mutiple targets is MIRV, its good to have but with only range of 300 KM, totally useless.

I sincerely believe aircrafts will not have a role to play in future war involving missile. Any missile launched will be assumed a nuke missile launched and you got to have air strips intact for aircrafts.


I thought I wouldn't bore other people with this discussion .... but now that Texan has raised it, wouldn't hurt to add a few things:

1. First I do agree that drones have a much better future.
2. However teh process will be a long and drawn since India has so much manpower and we don't have enough money to spend on drones and pilotless aircrafts. That is the reason why we want a 2 seator T20 rather than teh single seator that Russian wants for itself.
3. Supersonic and hypersonic are crucial to keep the element of surprise. Beside then they don't have to carry a larger bomb. The kinetic energy at mach 4-5-6 is huge.
4. MIRV agree is not a concept useful with Brahmos. They are two different things. Brahmos is a terrain hugging cruise missile.



Don't mean to derail the thread but I beg to differ. Saying Brahmos is toothless is a bit extreme. Also, fighter planes will not be irrelevant atleast not in near years. Their roles will change. Case in point - Let us say that an armored column of Paki tanks decide to cross the border and attack Longewala post, will you launch a nuclear missile? or will you send Mirage 2000 with smart bombs? Btw, all the fighter planes buffs should go through Bharat-rakshak.com.... Amazing!


Texan I love Bharat-Rakshak.com ..... a lot of military folks do contribute articles there. Inspite of political areas being effed up, Indian defense establishment is still doing its job in the means it has. And while Pakistani defense establishment has been supporting terrorism, their forces are very very professional - afterall both militaries share the same proud history and traditions.

[TheTexan]

Q,

You are right. Indian armed forces are doing a great job and very professional. She seriously lacks political will, foresight but that is another discussion. Also, you might want to check militaryphotos.net they have some amazing photos or war gizmos :-)

[immitime]

Eventhough i***t politicians trying to make India's military powerless. We are always respected for our might and power. A great website about India's military.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/

Vande Matharam!

[qesehmk]

Q, I am really enjoying the laddu. I always say to my friend, that if something unfortunate happens and I get kicked out, I will go as no choice, but otherwise I love USA.

Nishant while that is ok to say about US; it is not ok to say about your true Laddu. There you have to say "Even if you kick me I will stick around". Just saying .... ;)

[visagcinfo]

asankaran,
agree with you.

Q, don't want to miss this. Can someone translate pls?



shaadi kaa laddu. Jo khaye woh pachataye .... jo na khaye woh bhee pachataye!

nishant2200:
oh... no. I have always thought that is a stable place based on what I hear(d) from a friend who lives nearby. btw, i heard similar news at a company near the capitol too recently - but this company was expected to go down in their head count based on their industry and the economy.


Guys, just today

[soggadu]

asankaran,
agree with you.

Q, don't want to miss this.



that means..... Marriage sweet...who eat feel bad... Who no eat also feel bad... Bottom line... FEEL BAD!!!

[qesehmk]

It meant - "Marriage is a Laddu (i.e. sweet) that makes one repent it whether you eat it or not."



Q, don't want to miss this. Can someone translate pls?

[qblogfan]

My attitude towards GC is: if they keep me, I will keep milking the company; if they kick me out, I will go without complaining. After being cheated by the employer, I didn't work hard for them at all. Don't blame me, because of the frustration by this crazy long wait for GC, I do minimum work and count my pay checks every two weeks. Frankly not a single Indian/Chinese EB2 is happy about the long wait.

If we take things too seriously and put too much efforts into the work, we will be sad when they kick us out. If we don't put too much into it, we won't be too sad because at least we got some easy pay checks and enjoyed a good time here!


Guys, just today a near by huge company, the number one biotech company in world, won't take names here, laid off people from its R&D department. My two friends in that department, luckily escaped, and they are current in Nov VB and are preparing to file 485. One more friend, got laid off, but had just got the GC 6 days back. Luck. But not everyone would have been so lucky in last few years, as well as the other reasons people have mentioned.

One has to throw in a caution though, Spec has already baked in a drop off factor into the figures he has put up in facts and data, so it's not that we have not considered this.

I feel bad for people who suffered layoff or left for various reasons if they were not happy about it, but it may very well be the big help we need this year. FY 2010 we got FB 10k surprise help, FY 2011 we got the EB1 12k help (I think EB2 ROW caught up with usage later on) and low SYAs, and FY 2012 may very well turn out to be the unexpected help due to bad economy and H1 scrutiny taking a toll right now as well as through last few years on folks not having protection of EAD/AP.

For FY 2012, I still see Kazarian in place tormenting EB1A, EB1B, EB2 NIW. EB2ROW usage nothing has changed to suggest a dramatic surge in applications. EB5 US is trying to sell to people almost GC for money, smart investor will not put money in US right now, unless its throwaway cash and wants a backup for his kids in this country (read rich people in India and China). Doesnt look like USCIS is going great guns on 140 backlog at least right now. EB1C PP is not going to take place until next year. The EB1C PP and the 140 backlog reduction if happens, can cause problems.

This is all just speculation, just few weeks back we were thinking of doomsday case this year, with barely 18k SOFAD coming up, only till Oct 1st 2007 getting GC and so on.

We don't have data yet to speculate completely either way. Let's hope for the best.

ps: Q, I am really enjoying the laddu. I always say to my friend, that if something unfortunate happens and I get kicked out, I will go as no choice, but otherwise I love USA.

[nishant2200]

qbf, you rock! I am becoming qbf's fan :D

18 days to go.


My attitude towards GC is: if they keep me, I will keep milking the company; if they kick me out, I will go without complaining. After being cheated by the employer, I didn't work hard for them at all. Don't blame me, because of the frustration by this crazy long wait for GC, I do minimum work and count my pay checks every two weeks. Frankly not a single Indian/Chinese EB2 is happy about the long wait.

If we take things too seriously and put too much efforts into the work, we will be sad when they kick us out. If we don't put too much into it, we won't be too sad because at least we got some easy pay checks and enjoyed a good time here!

[qblogfan]

haha, thank you, my friend!

I am a big fan of nishant too! :)

I wish good luck to both of us!

If Mr.CO is really crazy, he may publish the VB in Nov.4th! He can do many crazy things! Maybe only 16 days to go! haha :)

Our Indian and Chinese friends have suffered too much from this GC long wait! We have been waiting for so many years and nobody can understand the pain of this process. I wish all of us can get GC ASAP!



qbf, you rock! I am becoming qbf's fan :D

18 days to go.

[imdeng]

When things get really tough - remember Sheldon's Law (ref: Foundation series by Asimov, hands down the best Science Fiction out there) - wait until there is only one alternative - take that and then keep waiting until all other alternatives go away and you are again left with just one.

Your destiny is already written - you are only following the script. Enjoy life and just keep doing what is needed - and do that to the best of your abilities. Life is great even without a GC.

[imdeng]

BTW - I am India right now - visiting parents for Diwali - and boy its bad in here. I get all the growth, opportunities etc. - but the quality of the day to day life pure sucks. Some observations:

1. I remember traffic as being bad - but the situation now is so awefully bad. New Delhi is bad enough - but smaller cities (I am in Ranchi right now) are even worse.
2. Thullas (cops, I feel compelled to translate everything for QBF - he is by far my favorite non-Guru poster here) are as much a menace as ever - always looking to get petty bribes.
3. Whats with all school/college age kids hanging around on streets/malls during school time??
4. Inflation OMG! Everything costs double than I remembered them from a few years back. So many things are now almost as expensive as they are in US.
5. Saas-Bahu (Monther-In-Law and Daughter-In-Law) dramas are stupid - there seems to be hundreds of them - on at all times of the day. What is even more stupid is that ALL 50+ women I know loves them - they are all in a trance watching them. All my protests about none of the women in those dramas ever studying or working, unreasonable premise of joint families with four generations living in a palace together, unbelievably sexist attitudes of everyone in there etc etc all fall on deaf ears.

I have more - but the power just went off - so got to post before my battery dies.

[immitime]

BTW - I am India right now - visiting parents for Diwali - and boy its bad in here. I get all the growth, opportunities etc. - but the quality of the day to day life pure sucks. Some observations:

1. I remember traffic as being bad - but the situation now is so awefully bad. New Delhi is bad enough - but smaller cities (I am in Ranchi right now) are even worse.
2. Thullas (cops, I feel compelled to translate everything for QBF - he is by far my favorite non-Guru poster here) are as much a menace as ever - always looking to get petty bribes.
3. Whats with all school/college age kids hanging around on streets/malls during school time??
4. Inflation OMG! Everything costs double than I remembered them from a few years back. So many things are now almost as expensive as they are in US.
5. Saas-Bahu (Monther-In-Law and Daughter-In-Law) dramas are stupid - there seems to be hundreds of them - on at all times of the day. What is even more stupid is that ALL 50+ women I know loves them - they are all in a trance watching them. All my protests about none of the women in those dramas ever studying or working, unreasonable premise of joint families with four generations living in a palace together, unbelievably sexist attitudes of everyone in there etc etc all fall on deaf ears.

I have more - but the power just went off - so got to post before my battery dies.

That is the Truth about India and the real picture. in a nutshell.. lot of my friends gone back thinking India is going to be super power now wants to come back to US. I recommended them to come as International Managers, so that they do not need to wait on this useless queue created to divide Immigrant community!

[suninphx]

That is the Truth about India and the real picture. in a nutshell.. lot of my friends gone back thinking India is going to be super power now wants to come back to US. I recommended them to come as International Managers, so that they do not need to wait on this useless queue created to divide Immigrant community!

Having worked with two of those top 5 from INDIA, one thing I can tell you that coming as international manager is not a easy task. Higher ups know that once you get GC you are going to change the jobs...so they dont want to put all money and effort.

[nishant2200]

In some other forums, you would be attacked by pack of wolves on expressing your views like this. I totally see where you are coming from. I agree with you, I am glad especially about the saas-bahu part (you totally said what I think), and would put one more point which may apply to some of us, our kids have no future in terms of education, because of reservation. Study entire day and be bookworms and "ratta" (mugging up, remembering word to word textbook without thought) and get 110% points, childhood lost in endless pursuit of a dream which should be a fundamental right of any child who is averagely smart. Because of reservation policies, I feel like I am outcasted from my own country.

We will move digressing posts few time later to other thread, but I could not stop myself from expressing how I completely felt same as you.


BTW - I am India right now - visiting parents for Diwali - and boy its bad in here. I get all the growth, opportunities etc. - but the quality of the day to day life pure sucks. Some observations:

1. I remember traffic as being bad - but the situation now is so awefully bad. New Delhi is bad enough - but smaller cities (I am in Ranchi right now) are even worse.
2. Thullas (cops, I feel compelled to translate everything for QBF - he is by far my favorite non-Guru poster here) are as much a menace as ever - always looking to get petty bribes.
3. Whats with all school/college age kids hanging around on streets/malls during school time??
4. Inflation OMG! Everything costs double than I remembered them from a few years back. So many things are now almost as expensive as they are in US.
5. Saas-Bahu (Monther-In-Law and Daughter-In-Law) dramas are stupid - there seems to be hundreds of them - on at all times of the day. What is even more stupid is that ALL 50+ women I know loves them - they are all in a trance watching them. All my protests about none of the women in those dramas ever studying or working, unreasonable premise of joint families with four generations living in a palace together, unbelievably sexist attitudes of everyone in there etc etc all fall on deaf ears.

I have more - but the power just went off - so got to post before my battery dies.

[usernameisnotvalid]

my first post here. could not control myself after reading this. I like the way you put it: "Study entire day and be bookworks and "ratta" and get 110% points, childhood lost in endless pursuit of a dream which should be a fundamental right of any child who is averagely smart. "

Thanks


In some other forums, you would be attacked by pack of wolves on expressing your views like this. I totally see where you are coming from. I agree with you, I am glad especially about the saas-bahu part (you totally said what I think), and would put one more point which may apply to some of us, our kids have no future in terms of education, because of reservation. Study entire day and be bookworms and "ratta" (mugging up, remembering word to word textbook without thought) and get 110% points, childhood lost in endless pursuit of a dream which should be a fundamental right of any child who is averagely smart. Because of reservation policies, I feel like I am outcasted from my own country.

We will move digressing posts few time later to other thread, but I could not stop myself from expressing how I completely felt same as you.

[TheTexan]

Nishant,

You hit the nail! I am of the exact same opinion.

[qblogfan]

Haha, I am glad to know I am your favorite non-guru poster!

I think India and China will develop and catch up with the western countries sooner or later. It's just a matter of time. Both countries have huge populations, so it's difficult to turn around and catch up with the west. I think education is very important. In China 2/3 of the population are still in the country side and the education in the country side is pretty bad. I think India is in similar situation.


BTW - I am India right now - visiting parents for Diwali - and boy its bad in here. I get all the growth, opportunities etc. - but the quality of the day to day life pure sucks. Some observations:

1. I remember traffic as being bad - but the situation now is so awefully bad. New Delhi is bad enough - but smaller cities (I am in Ranchi right now) are even worse.
2. Thullas (cops, I feel compelled to translate everything for QBF - he is by far my favorite non-Guru poster here) are as much a menace as ever - always looking to get petty bribes.
3. Whats with all school/college age kids hanging around on streets/malls during school time??
4. Inflation OMG! Everything costs double than I remembered them from a few years back. So many things are now almost as expensive as they are in US.
5. Saas-Bahu (Monther-In-Law and Daughter-In-Law) dramas are stupid - there seems to be hundreds of them - on at all times of the day. What is even more stupid is that ALL 50+ women I know loves them - they are all in a trance watching them. All my protests about none of the women in those dramas ever studying or working, unreasonable premise of joint families with four generations living in a palace together, unbelievably sexist attitudes of everyone in there etc etc all fall on deaf ears.

I have more - but the power just went off - so got to post before my battery dies.

[qblogfan]

haha, I had similar education and childhood.

When I was in middle school from age 12-18, I had to study from 7am-10pm in school, Monday to Sunday noon. The only holiday for us was Sunday afternoon. It was a crazy education system, more like a military camp. The boys and girls were not allowed to have long hair and the girls were not allowed to wear skirts. I didn't have any fun in my middle school. We had to study so much because the college entrance exam was very difficult. Only 20% of my classmates could go to college. The population is huge and the number of colleges is small in China, so the competition is so high. This kind of education system kills students' creativity and the only thing we learnt from school was how to solve equations, how to do exams. It's sad, but it's still going on in China.


In some other forums, you would be attacked by pack of wolves on expressing your views like this. I totally see where you are coming from. I agree with you, I am glad especially about the saas-bahu part (you totally said what I think), and would put one more point which may apply to some of us, our kids have no future in terms of education, because of reservation. Study entire day and be bookworms and "ratta" (mugging up, remembering word to word textbook without thought) and get 110% points, childhood lost in endless pursuit of a dream which should be a fundamental right of any child who is averagely smart. Because of reservation policies, I feel like I am outcasted from my own country.

We will move digressing posts few time later to other thread, but I could not stop myself from expressing how I completely felt same as you.

[qesehmk]

imdeng i always thought looking at your name that you were chinese!

i think what you say is sad truth. The problem is - you and I try to preach these things to Indians ..... they think we are not Indians anymore and have no business telling them about things in india. These saas-bahu dramas is seriously destroying India families. I have seen first hand here in America some of my friends settled here bringing their mothers from India and then subscribing to Zee and Star etc and these stupid dramas destroying the peace in the house. 10 years younger - I would have said, teh people are to blame for themselves, how can they allow themselves to be influenced. But today my views are different. I think people are a product of the environment they are subjected to.

But all said and done I also know friends who are very happy back home and have no desire to come back. so I guess it depends on what one wants in life.

Anyway enjoy Diwali!! I have missed my diwalis in India since 2000. Missed every single Ganapati since 1996. I envy you :)


BTW - I am India right now - visiting parents for Diwali - and boy its bad in here. I get all the growth, opportunities etc. - but the quality of the day to day life pure sucks. Some observations:

1. I remember traffic as being bad - but the situation now is so awefully bad. New Delhi is bad enough - but smaller cities (I am in Ranchi right now) are even worse.
2. Thullas (cops, I feel compelled to translate everything for QBF - he is by far my favorite non-Guru poster here) are as much a menace as ever - always looking to get petty bribes.
3. Whats with all school/college age kids hanging around on streets/malls during school time??
4. Inflation OMG! Everything costs double than I remembered them from a few years back. So many things are now almost as expensive as they are in US.
5. Saas-Bahu (Monther-In-Law and Daughter-In-Law) dramas are stupid - there seems to be hundreds of them - on at all times of the day. What is even more stupid is that ALL 50+ women I know loves them - they are all in a trance watching them. All my protests about none of the women in those dramas ever studying or working, unreasonable premise of joint families with four generations living in a palace together, unbelievably sexist attitudes of everyone in there etc etc all fall on deaf ears.

I have more - but the power just went off - so got to post before my battery dies.


Haha, I am glad to know I am your favorite non-guru poster!

I think India and China will develop and catch up with the western countries sooner or later. It's just a matter of time. Both countries have huge populations, so it's difficult to turn around and catch up with the west. I think education is very important. In China 2/3 of the population are still in the country side and the education in the country side is pretty bad. I think India is in similar situation.

QBF, I seriously am bought into your solution that Indians and chinese need to spread around the world. They simply don't have enough land and resources to sustain them in their respective lands.

[Stemcell]

When i first came to US in 2000....this was my thinking....Ok work hard and be done with your education and in the process if you happen to make some money then so be it.....then once education is done reevaluate where you want to be....Abroad or India.....

Am at a point now where i can be content with my education, but education is never a done deal...it can go on and on....so i will leave it at that and now the reevaluation part...what next stay put in USA or go back....

But unconsciously in the past 10 years we have globalized....to an extent we are globizens now....we may live in one place for small periods at a time but mentally we corelate with other places too. Not sure if this makes any sense to anyone of you......

So NRI's cant settle down in US completely....neither can they settle down in India completely, when you are here you want to be there and when there you want to be here syndrome. ( so goes with other countries too).

Going forward we will have "ties" to a truly 'flat world' as Nandan Nilekani calls it and be well prepared to live anywhere.
So with your kids invest in three languages, English,Spanish and Mandarin.:p



Congrats Monica and pch053 !

[sandeep11]

Well I agree..I always laugh when anyone from India would just land and say that I will go back after two years.....when they ask me why do i laugh, i simple say wait for a year and then come back and tell me if you still wanna go back....:)

Education + Job ($$$) + Marriage (Q's Laddu) + Home + Kid/s + X = QUAGMIRE

Where X = GC (Must have variable)


Isn't Thomas Friedman who wrote a book 'The World is Flat'??

Have fun.






When i first came to US in 2000....this was my thinking....Ok work hard and be done with your education and in the process if you happen to make some money then so be it.....then once education is done reevaluate where you want to be....Abroad or India.....

Am at a point now where i can be content with my education, but education is never a done deal...it can go on and on....so i will leave it at that and now the reevaluation part...what next stay put in USA or go back....

But unconsciously in the past 10 years we have globalized....to an extent we are globizens now....we may live in one place for small periods at a time but mentally we corelate with other places too. Not sure if this makes any sense to anyone of you......

So NRI's cant settle down in US completely....neither can they settle down in India completely, when you are here you want to be there and when there you want to be here syndrome. ( so goes with other countries too).

Going forward we will have "ties" to a truly 'flat world' as Nandan Nilekani calls it and be well prepared to live anywhere.
So with your kids invest in three languages, English,Spanish and Mandarin.:p



Congrats Monica and pch053 !

[Pdmar08]

seriously...this is an exact reflection of my thoughts. The quality of life is going down at an incredible place and i am sorry to say that my friends and relatives who have not been outside the US keep equating India to US. And i will be very very glad if we make great progress but getting a cellphone in the hand of every kid is not progress for me. I think of going back but a 3 hour one way commute from NewBombay to Andheri scares me. I love Bombay(Mumbai for those who prefer that, though a maumbaikar i prefer bombay for various reasons) but my bombay is going to the dogs.

Rant over... please delete if inappropriate.


In some other forums, you would be attacked by pack of wolves on expressing your views like this. I totally see where you are coming from. I agree with you, I am glad especially about the saas-bahu part (you totally said what I think), and would put one more point which may apply to some of us, our kids have no future in terms of education, because of reservation. Study entire day and be bookworms and "ratta" (mugging up, remembering word to word textbook without thought) and get 110% points, childhood lost in endless pursuit of a dream which should be a fundamental right of any child who is averagely smart. Because of reservation policies, I feel like I am outcasted from my own country.

We will move digressing posts few time later to other thread, but I could not stop myself from expressing how I completely felt same as you.

[gcseeker]

Pdmar08

:) I would agree on many of the points. However I am more optimistic about the future. Today in the Transparency International surveys India ranks along with somalia and other countries on the issue of corruption however one strong bill like the Lokpal can set right a lot of things. In the 1970's singapore had a huge crime ridden society and an police force which was hand in glove with the criminals.Today it is squeaking clean thanks to laws that were enacted.

The wild wild west during the time of America's rise was also similar.Education and nation building changed a lot of things. India has many things going for it and change in civic sense and moral values will also happen.

In fact we have an rich heritage to derive inspiration from and atleast the next generation will be better than this one and of course we will be living in a flat world (as mentioned by stemcell ...original quote from David Friedman(nytimes) and later on Nandan Nilekani ) and exchange of ideas and cultures will take place.

Without hope there is nothing to live for . Each to his own . This is an never ending question and there is no perfect return plan that fits everybody.Somebody might be happy here after getting citizenship.Somebody might go back after working a few years after GC.Somebody might just return in 2 years of landing here.

It is not the land where one settles that matters It is just one's inner state which matters for happiness :).


seriously...this is an exact reflection of my thoughts. The quality of life is going down at an incredible place and i am sorry to say that my friends and relatives who have not been outside the US keep equating India to US. And i will be very very glad if we make great progress but getting a cellphone in the hand of every kid is not progress for me. I think of going back but a 3 hour one way commute from NewBombay to Andheri scares me. I love Bombay(Mumbai for those who prefer that, though a maumbaikar i prefer bombay for various reasons) but my bombay is going to the dogs.

Rant over... please delete if inappropriate.

[Pdmar08]

I dont want to start a debate but one thing i agree to GCSeeker for sure is "In fact we have an rich heritage to derive inspiration from"...rest to each his own.


Pdmar08

:) I would agree on many of the points. However I am more optimistic about the future. Today in the Transparency International surveys India ranks along with somalia and other countries on the issue of corruption however one strong bill like the Lokpal can set right a lot of things. In the 1970's singapore had a huge crime ridden society and an police force which was hand in glove with the criminals.Today it is squeaking clean thanks to laws that were enacted.

The wild wild west during the time of America's rise was also similar.Education and nation building changed a lot of things. India has many things going for it and change in civic sense and moral values will also happen.

In fact we have an rich heritage to derive inspiration from and atleast the next generation will be better than this one and of course we will be living in a flat world (as mentioned by stemcell ...original quote from David Friedman(nytimes) and later on Nandan Nilekani ) and exchange of ideas and cultures will take place.

Without hope there is nothing to live for . Each to his own . This is an never ending question and there is no perfect return plan that fits everybody.Somebody might be happy here after getting citizenship.Somebody might go back after working a few years after GC.Somebody might just return in 2 years of landing here.

It is not the land where one settles that matters It is just one's inner state which matters for happiness :).

[codesmith]

You reminded me of the days when it used to take 1 to 1.5 hrs to come from Hiranandani complex to IIT road. ( The distance between these 2 points is hardly 1km )
and then it would take another 2 hrs to reach home.
One of the main reasons I prefer to be in US is commute time/ease and I can spend time with my kid/family.
Otherwise I still love Mumbai,wada-paw,cutting chai,Wills, Kingfisher, list goes on.
Mumbai meri jaan :))


seriously...I think of going back but a 3 hour one way commute from NewBombay to Andheri scares me. I love Bombay(Mumbai for those who prefer that, though a maumbaikar i prefer bombay for various reasons) but my bombay is going to the dogs.

Rant over... please delete if inappropriate.

[immitime]

Pdmar08

:) I would agree on many of the points. However I am more optimistic about the future. Today in the Transparency International surveys India ranks along with somalia and other countries on the issue of corruption however one strong bill like the Lokpal can set right a lot of things. In the 1970's singapore had a huge crime ridden society and an police force which was hand in glove with the criminals.Today it is squeaking clean thanks to laws that were enacted.

The wild wild west during the time of America's rise was also similar.Education and nation building changed a lot of things. India has many things going for it and change in civic sense and moral values will also happen.

In fact we have an rich heritage to derive inspiration from and atleast the next generation will be better than this one and of course we will be living in a flat world (as mentioned by stemcell ...original quote from David Friedman(nytimes) and later on Nandan Nilekani ) and exchange of ideas and cultures will take place.

Without hope there is nothing to live for . Each to his own . This is an never ending question and there is no perfect return plan that fits everybody.Somebody might be happy here after getting citizenship.Somebody might go back after working a few years after GC.Somebody might just return in 2 years of landing here.

It is not the land where one settles that matters It is just one's inner state which matters for happiness :).

Your wording is really great

In fact we have an rich heritage to derive inspiration from and atleast the next generation will be better than this one

But if you see the facts, next generation is going down without taking inspiration, the Indian Government want to control all the heritage. Yoga was abandoned for a long time, now when the west approved it everyone knows the value, same thing, there are gold mines in our Indian Heritage, Like Vedic Mathematics, Ayurveda, which treates the cause rather than the symptoms! But most of the new generation folks are behind western culture. And do you know one info. in Stanford, they are taking classes in "Kathopanishad" for one chanpter costs you $4000/- our Rishis and Baba's give it free,(I am against fake ones of course majority are nowadays!!:-)) and most of the people condemn it as hum bug. We still need the western approval for everything. Please Think. now some of the folks may jump at me for this writing, but TRUTH some times hurts. For the jumping jacks ... just wait one more decade to realise this!... probably :-)

[Stemcell]

On the second point - can we please add either Hindi or Sanskrit please to that list.

Q,

As much as i am proud of my Hyderabadi Hindi, unfortunately i cant make a decent living with Hindi and Sanskrit only these days my friend kaiku boletho...
you have to be Lallo or Mayawati et all for that.:cool:

No seriously the adaptability factory is severely handicapped with these languages......

[qblogfan]

haha, yes, in the Chinese families, mother in law and daughter in law can't get along either. It's very common in China. It's in all cultures. In the Chinese traditions, young couples have to live with parents, but nowadays it's almost impossible. The young generations have a huge gap with the old generations. I agree that maybe it's a good idea to live seperately when they are in 50s and 60s, but I think young people should help parents when they become really old, like 70s and 80s. I don't like the western culture that young people send their parents into nursing units. It's our responsibility to take care of the old when they lose mobility.

I am glad to know that you like the idea that China and India should move more people out of the countries. I think both countries are over populated and have huge eco and social pressure. At the same time, Canada/Australia/USA have much more resources and the population is small. Of course, the local people want to enjoy the big pie by themselves, that's why NumberUSA was formed to fight againts us.


imdeng i always thought looking at your name that you were chinese!

i think what you say is sad truth. The problem is - you and I try to preach these things to Indians ..... they think we are not Indians anymore and have no business telling them about things in india. These saas-bahu dramas is seriously destroying India families. I have seen first hand here in America some of my friends settled here bringing their mothers from India and then subscribing to Zee and Star etc and these stupid dramas destroying the peace in the house. 10 years younger - I would have said, teh people are to blame for themselves, how can they allow themselves to be influenced. But today my views are different. I think people are a product of the environment they are subjected to.

But all said and done I also know friends who are very happy back home and have no desire to come back. so I guess it depends on what one wants in life.

Anyway enjoy Diwali!! I have missed my diwalis in India since 2000. Missed every single Ganapati since 1996. I envy you :)





QBF, I seriously am bought into your solution that Indians and chinese need to spread around the world. They simply don't have enough land and resources to sustain them in their respective lands.

[whereismygclost]

good to see quite a few from mumbai ...born and brought up in mumbai ...still miss it ..evertime i visit first thing i do is visit my good old tapri for some vada pav and cutting chai ..love u mumbai or bombay ..name doesn't matter to me ..

You reminded me of the days when it used to take 1 to 1.5 hrs to come from Hiranandani complex to IIT road. ( The distance between these 2 points is hardly 1km )
and then it would take another 2 hrs to reach home.
One of the main reasons I prefer to be in US is commute time/ease and I can spend time with my kid/family.
Otherwise I still love Mumbai,wada-paw,cutting chai,Wills, Kingfisher, list goes on.
Mumbai meri jaan :))

[immitime]

Q,

As much as i am proud of my Hyderabadi Hindi, unfortunately i cant make a decent living with Hindi and Sanskrit only these days my friend kaiku boletho...
you have to be Lallo or Mayawati et all for that.:cool:

No seriously the adaptability factory is severely handicapped with these languages......

Man.. Sanskrit is the mother of all languages, you can use the same word for different meaning at different contexts! saying Sanskrit is non adapatable.. is beacuse of lesser information about that language. Even research is going on for computers to use Sanskrit for programming!

[qblogfan]

haha, Yoga is very popular in China. :) Every woman I know is learning Yoga. The Yoga classes in China cost thousands of dollars.


Your wording is really great

In fact we have an rich heritage to derive inspiration from and atleast the next generation will be better than this one

But if you see the facts, next generation is going down without taking inspiration, the Indian Government want to control all the heritage. Yoga was abandoned for a long time, now when the west approved it everyone knows the value, same thing, there are gold mines in our Indian Heritage, Like Vedic Mathematics, Ayurveda, which treates the cause rather than the symptoms! But most of the new generation folks are behind western culture. And do you know one info. in Stanford, they are taking classes in "Kathopanishad" for one chanpter costs you $4000/- our Rishis and Baba's give it free,(I am against fake ones of course majority are nowadays!!:-)) and most of the people condemn it as hum bug. We still need the western approval for everything. Please Think. now some of the folks may jump at me for this writing, but TRUTH some times hurts. For the jumping jacks ... just wait one more decade to realise this!... probably :-)

[gcseeker]

Immitime

Definetly valid points and it is true validation has to come from the west to accept it scientifically. Some examples are

1.Mount Sinai Hospital (One of the most prestigious one's) now has an alternative medicine department ( Yoga/Chi/Accupuncture/Ayurveda) and so do some of the big ones.
2.NIH is spending close to 1B dollars annually in search of medicinal herbs from the himalayan regions. Long Long ago without the help of supercomputers some of our ancestors were able to specify the healing properties of the herbs without even doing lab analysis.Same goes for chinese medicine as well.
3.Close to 10% Americans now follow some form of Yoga in their daily activities.Another 10% easily would be doing Qi Gong/Tai Chi .

In the 1960's and 1970's it took atleast two decades to convince modern medicine of the psycho somatic model of the human body.Till that time it was just an bundle of nerves and muscles.Same way the 1980's saw the emergence of Yoga into the mainstream as an valid method. :) Definetly the wheels turn slowly ,but they will. Some in the next generation will surely leave all of this and some of the others will surely embrace the heritage and the knowledge that comes along with it.

Erwin Schrodinger whose wave equation is the foundation of modern quantum mechanics and is one of the foundationstones of modern solid state physics was inspired originally by the vedantic model of duality.He applied it to wave and particle model of the electron . Even his wikipedia page mentions it quite prominently

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Schr%C3%B6dinger

Anywaz we would be digressing from the topic at hand .We should talk more in the general section .


Your wording is really great

In fact we have an rich heritage to derive inspiration from and atleast the next generation will be better than this one

But if you see the facts, next generation is going down without taking inspiration, the Indian Government want to control all the heritage. Yoga was abandoned for a long time, now when the west approved it everyone knows the value, same thing, there are gold mines in our Indian Heritage, Like Vedic Mathematics, Ayurveda, which treates the cause rather than the symptoms! But most of the new generation folks are behind western culture. And do you know one info. in Stanford, they are taking classes in "Kathopanishad" for one chanpter costs you $4000/- our Rishis and Baba's give it free,(I am against fake ones of course majority are nowadays!!:-)) and most of the people condemn it as hum bug. We still need the western approval for everything. Please Think. now some of the folks may jump at me for this writing, but TRUTH some times hurts. For the jumping jacks ... just wait one more decade to realise this!... probably :-)

[Stemcell]

Man.. Sanskrit is the mother of all languages, you can use the same word for different meaning at different contexts! saying Sanskrit is non adapatable.. is beacuse of lesser information about that language. Even research is going on for computers to use Sanskrit for programming!

My friend i completely agree with you that Sanskrit is the mother of all languages.
But doing research on Sanskrit will not make me meet both ends is what i am saying.

The ecosystem around us does not support these languages.Its something like Nokia and RIMM are facing they were the mother/father of smartphones.....look whats happening to them :cool: ecosystems keep changing.....

[suninphx]

Believe it or not I also enjoyed the train! I just like the rush of it. I am from Pune but very much liked Mumbai for its industrious nature and super friendly people!!!


Wow Q you are a 'Punekar' ....
Whenever I miss our lovely Pune I quickly get onto google maps and traverse through all my favourite routes and places... ah getting nostalgic now

[immitime]

Immitime

Definetly valid points and it is true validation has to come from the west to accept it scientifically. Some examples are

1.Mount Sinai Hospital (One of the most prestigious one's) now has an alternative medicine department ( Yoga/Chi/Accupuncture/Ayurveda) and so do some of the big ones.
2.NIH is spending close to 1B dollars annually in search of medicinal herbs from the himalayan regions. Long Long ago without the help of supercomputers some of our ancestors were able to specify the healing properties of the herbs without even doing lab analysis.Same goes for chinese medicine as well.
3.Close to 10% Americans now follow some form of Yoga in their daily activities.Another 10% easily would be doing Qi Gong/Tai Chi .

In the 1960's and 1970's it took atleast two decades to convince modern medicine of the psycho somatic model of the human body.Till that time it was just an bundle of nerves and muscles.Same way the 1980's saw the emergence of Yoga into the mainstream as an valid method. :) Definetly the wheels turn slowly ,but they will. Some in the next generation will surely leave all of this and some of the others will surely embrace the heritage and the knowledge that comes along with it.

Erwin Schrodinger whose wave equation is the foundation of modern quantum mechanics and is one of the foundationstones of modern solid state physics was inspired originally by the vedantic model of duality.He applied it to wave and particle model of the electron . Even his wikipedia page mentions it quite prominently

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Schr%C3%B6dinger

Anywaz we would be digressing from the topic at hand .We should talk more in the general section .

Thank You for this link, I can share another link about Advaita and Physics a pdf great study..will share it later, now it is not handy,

Q' sorry for the offtopic Please move this postings to appropriate thread if you wish

[immitime]

My friend i completely agree with you that Sanskrit is the mother of all languages.
But doing research on Sanskrit will not make me meet both ends is what i am saying.

The ecosystem around us does not support these languages.Its something like Nokia and RIMM are facing they were the mother/father of smartphones.....look whats happening to them :cool: ecosystems keep changing.....

Thank You man I hear you..
Change is only the Changeless Law...

[qesehmk]

Erwin Schrodinger whose wave equation is the foundation of modern quantum mechanics and is one of the foundationstones of modern solid state physics was inspired originally by the vedantic model of duality.
Cant help but share one more similar thing:
Rumour is that Enrico Fermi upon seeing the first atomic explosion in NM desert said, "The brilliance of this pales only slightly in comparison to Bhasa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bh%C4%81sa)'s genius."

The person who classified and found medicinal values of all plants in Indian continent was Charak who famously said that "All plants are medicinal, all lettters can be used to create mantra, all people are useful, IF one knows how to make it happen".

And finally about Sanskrit, I agree with stemcell that the ecosystem has changed. However Noam Chomsky - the father of modern language theory - has acknowledged Panini's grammar rules as significant source of inspiration. For those from non-comp-science background, today's computers make extensive use of exact same structure of rules called automatons which are already present in Sanskrit in the form of Panini's rules of Sanskrit grammar.

[TheTexan]

Same here... I miss the bombil fry, bhel, misal to name a few....also miss going to Gajalee @ v.parle. But on a serious note, I too feel the growth in India is haphazard.

[TheTexan]

Q... just read that you are from Pune... I am a mumbaikar but love Pune too.... Ferguson, symbi, Vaishali & Deccan Queen.. Btw, have you watched the marathi movie - Mumbai Pune Mumbai? Good one. For non-marathi speakers it is about friendly differences that mumbaikars and punekars point about each others.

[qesehmk]

Haahaahaaa! Same here. Good to know you are a fellow "Punekar". (Other people use the word as a curse by the way! But we dont care.)

Wow Q you are a 'Punekar' ....
Whenever I miss our lovely Pune I quickly get onto google maps and traverse through all my favourite routes and places... ah getting nostalgic now

[Pdmar08]

Me too....and i listen to some of my fav chapters from Shantaram(GD Roberts)


Wow Q you are a 'Punekar' ....
Whenever I miss our lovely Pune I quickly get onto google maps and traverse through all my favourite routes and places... ah getting nostalgic now

[Stemcell]

Haahaahaaa! Same here. Good to know you are a fellow "Punekar". (Other people use the word as a curse by the way! But we dont care.)


Loved every bit of my 4.5 yrs at Pune ( AFMC ).
M.G Road..Westend...Alankar theater....Victory theater( when money was tight which was always the case ;), ferguson area as was mentioned and Coffee house, Radio Hotel ( 5 rupees and you had your belly full of beef :cool:).....Man i am excited just thinking of those memories.
Has any Punekars been to the Bhootbangla near Westend theater ?


yes please move this post wherever:)

[gcseeker]

Q

:) never expected you would be interested in this topic. Thanks for sharing the quote by Charak,will surely go into my favourite quotes collection.

On a side note this forum just continues to amaze me everyday.It used to be the best releif for gc based discussions.Who knows in the future it might even lead to fruitful knowledge exchange about different topics.




The person who classified and found medicinal values of all plants in Indian continent was Charak who famously said that "All plants are medicinal, all lettters can be used to create mantra, all people are useful, IF one knows how to make it happen".
.

[grnwtg]

I was smiling when 'Q' mentioned about friendliness of mumbaikars....i had few friends from Pune and Mumbai, they always curse each other for fun...

after 10 years, my memories are slowly fading, hopefully i visit India frequently once i receive EAD/GC.

Anyway...hopefully inventory really was not 8k due to various reason, if this is the case then probably every body agree dates will go past Jan'2008??




Q... just read that you are from Pune... I am a mumbaikar but love Pune too.... Ferguson, symbi, Vaishali & Deccan Queen.. Btw, have you watched the marathi movie - Mumbai Pune Mumbai? Good one. For non-marathi speakers it is about friendly differences that mumbaikars and punekars point about each others.

[codesmith]

Q, I think you mean to say Oppenheimer [?]
Oppenheimer has famously said the following when at Trinity test site

"If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky that would be
like the splendour of the Mighty One..."

[QUOTE=qesehmk;11536]Cant help but share one more similar thing:
Rumour is that Enrico Fermi upon seeing the first atomic explosion in NM desert said, "The brilliance of this pales only slightly in comparison to Bhasa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bh%C4%81sa)'s genius."

[iatiam]

I learned more abt indian culture today than I did in school. Either the education system sucks or you guys are too smart.

[Monica12]

Monica monica,
first of all congrats. second of all i told you you can do sky diving here. third of all Hritik left spain....he is not dancing to the tune of "kidhar hai tu...pagla hai kya" (or whatever that aunty is saying in spanish).
Anyways, i know what u mean have fun, when and i mean WHEN i get my GC i m going to drive to the canadian border just for kicks.
LOL ! Pdmar08... on second thought since I'm scared of heights and water...I'll just run in front of the bulls and come back
PS : Hrithik not being there anymore is a bummer( Damn ! didn't think of that )

[qblogfan]

I saw more than 10 eb2-c approvals in this afternoon alone! I think they are approving 90% of the cases before July 15, 2007. The approval rate is constant in the first 3 weeks of October.

[Pedro Gonzales]

Wow Q you are a 'Punekar' ....
Whenever I miss our lovely Pune I quickly get onto google maps and traverse through all my favourite routes and places... ah getting nostalgic now

That makes it 3 of us here on this board with a Bombay and PHX connection. I say that in all seriousness, as Pune, of course, is now well and truly the Easternmost suburb of Bombay (have you seen all the construction on in the Panvel / Kalyan area?). Ghati and Punekar will no longer be gaalis. The townies will just club you guys in along with the rest of us burbies.

[nishant2200]

I personally only went to Bombay for visas and honestly get confused and lost in the vastness :)

[imdeng]

Adding to the chorus of all the Pune people - I worked at TELCO Pune for a year - the Pimpri area - and honestly, it was the best one year of my life. Graduate Engineering Trainee Hostel, Thursdays off spent in Pune City, Beer Gardens :-), Sujata Khanna's CAT classes... its been a while though and I am told that the laid back, small town, go anywhere on a bike nature of Pune is gone. I have worked in every major city in India - and after Hyderabad, Pune is one place I would voluntarily spend my vacation in.

[imdeng]

Q - Dengu/Deng used to be my nickname during Engineering - hence I Am Deng.

I completely agree with you that the environment plays a significant part. I have always been a feminist (Obama presidency is a success for me after Sonia and Elena, the fact that both are unmarried, career women is a bonus) - and it kills me to see the stereotype of petty housewife being promoted in these saas-bahu dramas. Right now the entire country is covered in ads for Jewellery. There is this stupid ad for Cadbury where an obsequious female secretary is mistreated by her male boss and then he gives her a Diwali chocolate gift to she is all enamored - WTH!

Now after being known only with my first name in US for so many years, I am getting pissed at frequent attempts by people to ask my last name so that they can figure out my caste. Someone I know wanted a driver for a couple days, talked to a few people and chose the guy with the same caste as his - WTF!!

When you live in US for many years, you tend to forget the bad parts and reminisce about the good one. When you set foot here - it all catches up with you in a hurry and then you remember why you left in the first place.

BTW - credit where credit is due - the Terminal 3 (domestic) in New Delhi Airport is hands down better than any US airport that I have been to. Its huge, specious, an attendant for every restroom, lots of food options, clean (its new, remains to be seen in a couple years)...

I am back home for Diwali after some 15 years. This side of the country has always been more Durga Puja than Diwali. I am anyway not much of a pathaka guy (not even much of a colors in Holi guy) - so I intend to have a quiet Diwali. Eat mom-cooked food and chill.


imdeng i always thought looking at your name that you were chinese!

i think what you say is sad truth. The problem is - you and I try to preach these things to Indians ..... they think we are not Indians anymore and have no business telling them about things in india. These saas-bahu dramas is seriously destroying India families. I have seen first hand here in America some of my friends settled here bringing their mothers from India and then subscribing to Zee and Star etc and these stupid dramas destroying the peace in the house. 10 years younger - I would have said, teh people are to blame for themselves, how can they allow themselves to be influenced. But today my views are different. I think people are a product of the environment they are subjected to.

But all said and done I also know friends who are very happy back home and have no desire to come back. so I guess it depends on what one wants in life.

Anyway enjoy Diwali!! I have missed my diwalis in India since 2000. Missed every single Ganapati since 1996. I envy you :)





QBF, I seriously am bought into your solution that Indians and chinese need to spread around the world. They simply don't have enough land and resources to sustain them in their respective lands.

[suninphx]

That makes it 3 of us here on this board with a Bombay and PHX connection. I say that in all seriousness, as Pune, of course, is now well and truly the Easternmost suburb of Bombay (have you seen all the construction on in the Panvel / Kalyan area?). Ghati and Punekar will no longer be gaalis. The townies will just club you guys in along with the rest of us burbies.

Man each time I visit there are so many changes! So much construction...everywhere ...politicians are looting us in every aspect ...makes me sad. I always have a feeling that there is lot of bubble in India progress story...hope they prove me wrong.
I can understand why we are called 'Punekars' :) and as Q said we don't care ;)

Coming to ghati - ouch...I have few good words to give back if anyone calls me that. :)

I also like Mumbai very very much ...wish could spend some more time there

[suninphx]

Adding to the chorus of all the Pune people - I worked at TELCO Pune for a year - the Pimpri area - and honestly, it was the best one year of my life. Graduate Engineering Trainee Hostel, Thursdays off spent in Pune City, Beer Gardens :-), Sujata Khanna's CAT classes... its been a while though and I am told that the laid back, small town, go anywhere on a bike nature of Pune is gone. I have worked in every major city in India - and after Hyderabad, Pune is one place I would voluntarily spend my vacation in.
I have heard some good stories about TELCO canteen too :) TELCO is integral part of any Pune story

[suninphx]

Me too....and i listen to some of my fav chapters from Shantaram(GD Roberts)

That sounds interesting!!

[suninphx]

Loved every bit of my 4.5 yrs at Pune ( AFMC ).
M.G Road..Westend...Alankar theater....Victory theater( when money was tight which was always the case ;), ferguson area as was mentioned and Coffee house, Radio Hotel ( 5 rupees and you had your belly full of beef :cool:).....Man i am excited just thinking of those memories.
Has any Punekars been to the Bhootbangla near Westend theater ?


yes please move this post wherever:)

They removed those trees from FC road man...'ab pahela maja nahi raha'

[qesehmk]

Pedro,

Just like only blacks can call each other "Nigger", only "Punekars" can joke about the word "Punekar" being a curse!


That makes it 3 of us here on this board with a Bombay and PHX connection. I say that in all seriousness, as Pune, of course, is now well and truly the Easternmost suburb of Bombay (have you seen all the construction on in the Panvel / Kalyan area?). Ghati and Punekar will no longer be gaalis. The townies will just club you guys in along with the rest of us burbies.

Deng, I been to DEL as well as BLR in December. Was mesmerized by DEL. AMAZING. Was completely astounded by Gurgaon and Bangalore's knowledge industry. But then somehow we are still our old self. Caste is one thing. But I am saddened by lack of mutual respect and innovation - both of which are direct result of hierarchical caste system. Another huge drawback that we Indians have is that we are quite lazy and don't value hardwork. In all these 3 departments - equality (rather equal opportunity), innovation and hard work - Americans should really be our or anybody's role model.



Q - Dengu/Deng used to be my nickname during Engineering - hence I Am Deng.

I completely agree with you that the environment plays a significant part. I have always been a feminist (Obama presidency is a success for me after Sonia and Elena, the fact that both are unmarried, career women is a bonus) - and it kills me to see the stereotype of petty housewife being promoted in these saas-bahu dramas. Right now the entire country is covered in ads for Jewellery. There is this stupid ad for Cadbury where an obsequious female secretary is mistreated by her male boss and then he gives her a Diwali chocolate gift to she is all enamored - WTH!

Now after being known only with my first name in US for so many years, I am getting pissed at frequent attempts by people to ask my last name so that they can figure out my caste. Someone I know wanted a driver for a couple days, talked to a few people and chose the guy with the same caste as his - WTF!!

When you live in US for many years, you tend to forget the bad parts and reminisce about the good one. When you set foot here - it all catches up with you in a hurry and then you remember why you left in the first place.

BTW - credit where credit is due - the Terminal 3 (domestic) in New Delhi Airport is hands down better than any US airport that I have been to. Its huge, specious, an attendant for every restroom, lots of food options, clean (its new, remains to be seen in a couple years)...

I am back home for Diwali after some 15 years. This side of the country has always been more Durga Puja than Diwali. I am anyway not much of a pathaka guy (not even much of a colors in Holi guy) - so I intend to have a quiet Diwali. Eat mom-cooked food and chill.

[suninphx]

Q - Dengu/Deng used to be my nickname during Engineering - hence I Am Deng.

I completely agree with you that the environment plays a significant part. I have always been a feminist (Obama presidency is a success for me after Sonia and Elena, the fact that both are unmarried, career women is a bonus) - and it kills me to see the stereotype of petty housewife being promoted in these saas-bahu dramas. Right now the entire country is covered in ads for Jewellery. There is this stupid ad for Cadbury where an obsequious female secretary is mistreated by her male boss and then he gives her a Diwali chocolate gift to she is all enamored - WTH!

Now after being known only with my first name in US for so many years, I am getting pissed at frequent attempts by people to ask my last name so that they can figure out my caste. Someone I know wanted a driver for a couple days, talked to a few people and chose the guy with the same caste as his - WTF!!

When you live in US for many years, you tend to forget the bad parts and reminisce about the good one. When you set foot here - it all catches up with you in a hurry and then you remember why you left in the first place.

BTW - credit where credit is due - the Terminal 3 (domestic) in New Delhi Airport is hands down better than any US airport that I have been to. Its huge, specious, an attendant for every restroom, lots of food options, clean (its new, remains to be seen in a couple years)...

I am back home for Diwali after some 15 years. This side of the country has always been more Durga Puja than Diwali. I am anyway not much of a pathaka guy (not even much of a colors in Holi guy) - so I intend to have a quiet Diwali. Eat mom-cooked food and chill.
When I lived few years in Bangaluru one thing liked there is that not many people put their last name ...just initials...essentially ruling out guess work based on last name

[qesehmk]

codesmith

You may be right. Oppenheimer was a sanskrit scholar. It could be him rather than Fermi. But i am quite certain that the quote was in relation with Bhasa. The wikipedia mentions the one about Geeta though.


Q, I think you mean to say Oppenheimer [?]
Oppenheimer has famously said the following when at Trinity test site

"If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky that would be
like the splendour of the Mighty One..."


Cant help but share one more similar thing:
Rumour is that Enrico Fermi upon seeing the first atomic explosion in NM desert said, "The brilliance of this pales only slightly in comparison to Bhasa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bh%C4%81sa)'s genius."

[immitime]

codesmith

You may be right. Oppenheimer was a sanskrit scholar. It could be him rather than Fermi. But i am quite certain that the quote was in relation with Bhasa. The wikipedia mentions the one about Geeta though.

What Oppenheimer said was exact copy paste of Srimad Bhagawad Geeta Chapter 11 Verse 12.

If by chance one thousand suns,
Adore the sky with their shine,
Then that great being’s light,
Would be some what equal to it.

http://stotraratna.awardspace.com/stotra/hindu/hi2.pdf

http://www.chinmayauk.org/Resources/Downloads.htm

[qesehmk]

Some of you might find it quite interesting..

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/technology/navigation-satellite-launch-work-picks-up-steam/article4850252.ece

Key significance of this would be (IMHO) to have a regional GPS that India can use for many reasons but most importantly for India's own defense forces. India won't have to rely on foreign GPS (either Western or Russian). And since this will be a regional GPS system, it will be defensive and meant to protect the region - so others won't have a problem with this.

[qesehmk]

Some of you may have been following this ..

Quite proud to see this happen.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/12/world/asia/india-aircraft-carrier/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/12/world/asia/india-aircraft-carrier/index.html)

[qesehmk]

Congratulations ISRO for a successful launch. Countdown to Sep 24th 2014 when the spacecraft reaches Mars.

Surprisingly the coverage in world media is generally positive - except CNN which wrote a stupid article.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/11/05/india-mars-mission/3440267/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/11/05/india-mars-mission/3440267/)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-24547892
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303482504579179311623419386
http://news.yahoo.com/countdown-mars-indian-mission-prepares-blastoff-232218771.html

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/04/world/asia/india-mars-space-race/
http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/04/world/asia/india-mars-orbiter/

[qesehmk]

Two key things happened in last couple of days: one is we should be proud of and second something that is quite disgraceful and yet poignant.

First is obviously the fact that Lokpal bill finally passed both houses. The Bill while not perfect is still a good forward step. While we blame Indian democracy for its shortcomings and the corruption that is so prevalent - we should not forget that compared to US and Britain, Indian democracy is infant. American democracy until 1910s was utterly corrupt while it has taken over 700-800 years of experiments in Britain to come to the level they are today. So not a very big cheer but still a small cheer for Lokpal is warranted.

Secondly the incident about the Indian deputy counselor in NY is quite disgraceful and should make Indians think about their ability to protect their people. Right and wrong behavior is a different question. But for a country to be able to project a single unified face to the world it is utterly critical that India thinks about how Indians can stand united and be able to protect themselves from each other and from outsiders. I for one am under no illusion that this was a random incident. George Fernandez was strip searched in the past, Indian President Abul Kalam was pattted down against protocol, Modi is denied visa, numerous other NY consulate women officers have had their complaints against the treatment they received or didn't from their American counterparts. I think this is just a wider trend of what EB immigrants experience in their personal lives. And if you don't show courage to speak against it then you hurt yourself as well as Indian community as well as wider immigrant community.

My 2 cents as usual.

All the best

Q

[gcq]

Q,
Amen. Double standards indeed !

[gcq]

A good article.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/opinion/edit-page/With-Devyani-Khobragade-US-wasnt-dealing-with-a-North-Korea-or-the-axis-of-evil/articleshow/27604782.cms

[qesehmk]

A good article.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/opinion/edit-page/With-Devyani-Khobragade-US-wasnt-dealing-with-a-North-Korea-or-the-axis-of-evil/articleshow/27604782.cms
Good one but still comes short off calling it a conspiracy. I have rarely respected congress leaders but this time I liked the way Salman Khurshid stood by a foreign service employee. The article is spot on when it says - India must do what it can to ensure that she should be able to do her job without fear and coercion from the host country. I really wonder why the US had offered her citizenship? Did she reject whatever that offer was and is that why they are teaching her a lesson?

[qesehmk]

Watching Pranav Roy on NDTV after 15 years. Such a mature civil and intelligent discussion. Bow to Pranav Roy and Bow to Indian democracy.

[qesehmk]

I wonder - if and when Modi as PM visits US - does he need a visa anymore? Probably not.

[gc0907]

As the news report says...he will fall under A1 visas and Obama has invited him to Washington.
But I am sure Modi will take his time and put Obama in waiting line until he makes trip to China, Japan, Germany, France etc...
Or may be until Obama first pay him a visit....


I wonder - if and when Modi as PM visits US - does he need a visa anymore? Probably not.

[qesehmk]

Those wanting to go back "Home" .... might like this article.

http://time.com/2977353/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers/

[qesehmk]

Happy Indian Independence Day to all.

[Kanmani]

Happy Independence Day!

669

[ramaka02]

A Very Happy Indian Independence Day!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPxsf_Ib7gs&feature=youtu.be

[qesehmk]

INS Karmota - first of four corvette's launched today. Named after Andaman Nicobar islands their primary role is anti-submarine-warfare.
They are designed and manufactured privately in India. The design looks pretty cool. Hope they will be well equipped with radars and arms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrOaz6OR8b4

[qesehmk]

Mars mission Live telecast starts in 2 minutes!


http://webcast.isro.gov.in/

[Kanmani]

Proud to be an Indian! Here is to India's Mars Orbiter Mission Success!

India has become the first country in the world to have reached Mars on its own steam in the first attempt and has become the first Asian country to have achieved this.

M Annadurai, head of the Indian Mars mission, said "We were confident that the laws of physics would favour India and the country could have its first robotic Martian baby soon"

[qesehmk]

Yeah!!!

PM Modi said - India reached Mars on a budget less than that of a Hollywood movie!! What a proud moment!!

Proud to be an Indian! Here is to India's Mars Orbiter Mission Success!

India has become the first country in the world to have reached Mars on its own steam in the first attempt and has become the first Asian country to have achieved this.

M Annadurai, head of the Indian Mars mission, said "We were confident that the laws of physics would favour India and the country could have its first robotic Martian baby soon"

[kumar777]

just read in an article... Now NASA should think of outsourcing some of its missions to ISRO as most of the scientists in NASA are Indians and Chinese anyway.

[qesehmk]

Community Announcement

The Honorable Prime Minister of India,Shri Narendra Modi will be addressing the Indo-American community at MadisonSquare Garden on Sunday, September 28, 2014. The program starts at 11:00 AM ET. Live Audio and Video streaming of the speech will be available at following links.



Audio Streaming Links
To listen to the speech live via phone
Dial Toll Free 1-855-222-4075

Other Audio Links via Internet
PM's Community Reception - AudioProgram in Hindi (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001F2fDqMIS6nrPlYPcdnRgOK8JcN97cuSaCEL0Lb f0nYCA4uwHBFRljCvHygW73bhqywv57W3tUpSBASEqMvS1fr_5 xPzMY4Veajxa4u3TOA_bB4k4p9tXGmxUjVAqg8AfSqDO8Wt-2etmwHYnOC5KyK2TOfKegwOnmdVptf9AQDzonrAsW75K7IK5Ce muokIRaDNdDY6KpTM6LCATNLcCnsr4yxwUhGaXd_PCaO6epN4=&c=mrev2ZBWSbrPSA-gR1O9fGLJD4K98GwQdUDjSXqWFdQ_IpCR3OOXqg==&ch=ueUNMejbaPXfFAQYQWWvbpLeyDu_8Ay-L1308D1xljnUcBWc-kdmSA==)
PM's Community Reception - AudioProgram in English (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001F2fDqMIS6nrPlYPcdnRgOK8JcN97cuSaCEL0Lb f0nYCA4uwHBFRljCvHygW73bhqIFuEqlmhtEUpyQ3WiJNzcjwO mFSZnHiqFWzLPJN8G09BzHXzbZLECsr0-xR5z3dDb8C5xGUmqAzZnWmEcZQXFKIJHAZaBPIvNaZZtIaAtfa oH9igKFtWCUcTRGRCuA0VP4ZuoN0zY3Eq-ApdesPq4da-W4yBT1Mh6d22G-pyrE4=&c=mrev2ZBWSbrPSA-gR1O9fGLJD4K98GwQdUDjSXqWFdQ_IpCR3OOXqg==&ch=ueUNMejbaPXfFAQYQWWvbpLeyDu_8Ay-L1308D1xljnUcBWc-kdmSA==)


Video Streaming Links
Live Video Streaming via Facebook (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001F2fDqMIS6nrPlYPcdnRgOK8JcN97cuSaCEL0Lb f0nYCA4uwHBFRljCvHygW73bhq2gWDpsz-hOQsdtsvhXdcFb0NpSZcAhxmJZ71Sic1XkvTX7g-1tqnj4WFHpVXV9OAaiUgiXCx8vk16lpLYVofdcdb2lMRjwnHy4 ZIYiNMvxVic_S26GM8BA==&c=mrev2ZBWSbrPSA-gR1O9fGLJD4K98GwQdUDjSXqWFdQ_IpCR3OOXqg==&ch=ueUNMejbaPXfFAQYQWWvbpLeyDu_8Ay-L1308D1xljnUcBWc-kdmSA==)
Live Video Streaming via You-Tube (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001F2fDqMIS6nrPlYPcdnRgOK8JcN97cuSaCEL0Lb f0nYCA4uwHBFRljCvHygW73bhqCQTZxTO5PpAR8CnKnUNKs_Vq tK9c0HQm5FgtOTygORh6wOQA84uWfQ2FO7EfCSuk46Y83vKPlw LWWyArDlrzKnaRgiHd24bxy1hBhsqNId4lLN8PSM0D2_WyTI9v Lo0X4GUPqf1JesxllX2L-3dINXzie5z8t9glJhbBsxJvQaWGti2TzQoZvIRRugZkIyg2-xe1Z326-viZ8Ukj-jVXyQ==&c=mrev2ZBWSbrPSA-gR1O9fGLJD4K98GwQdUDjSXqWFdQ_IpCR3OOXqg==&ch=ueUNMejbaPXfFAQYQWWvbpLeyDu_8Ay-L1308D1xljnUcBWc-kdmSA==)

[qesehmk]

Happy Diwali week to everybody. Wish you and your families a very happy Diwali and a happy new year.

696

[qesehmk]

Obama is going to be India's guest at Republic Day parade coming Jan 26th!

http://zeenews.india.com/news/india/pm-modi-invites-us-prez-to-be-chief-guest-at-2015-republic-day-parade-obama-accepts_1502766.html

[qesehmk]

To everybody

Happy Yugadi / Ugadi / Gudhi Padwa! Wish you and your families a very happy new Indian year.

p.s. - If there are any jewish friends out here - don't be alarmed with the Swastika. Indians have been using Swastika for thousands of years as a sign for peace and prosperity.

http://www.maharashtramazza.com/ContainForms/Img_all/Fectival/GudiPadwa.jpg